The role of the Pope, the numerous commitments of the Ministry, the public dimension also of a phone call, peace, that invoked from the first appearance by the Loggia delle Blessing, which is “the only answer” in this world marked by conflicts and “useless killings”, and the appeal to dialogue, synodality, “antidote” to polarizations, the growing gap between rich and poor, the double “identity” Peruvian and cheering during the World Cup. Are the topics of some extracts, anticipated by Crux and El comercioof the interview of Pope Leo XIV to the journalist of Crux, Elise Ann Allenthe first granted by Pontiff.
The interview – recorded in recent months in part in Castel Gandolfo and in part in his residence in the Palazzo del Sant’Offizio, in the Vatican – accompanies the biographical volume León XIV: Ciudano del Mundo, Misionero del Siglo XXI (Leo XIV: citizen of the world, missionary of the 21st century) which will be published in Spanish by Penguin Perú on September 18th. The editions in English and Portuguese will then follow.
Here’s what the pontiff said in this interview.
Latin American identity
«I am obviously American and I feel very American, but I also love Peru a lot, the Peruvian people, who are part of me. I spent half of my ministerial life in Peru, then The Latin American perspective is very important for me. I believe that this also transpires from my appreciation for the life of the Latin American Church, which I believe was significant both in my relationship with Pope Francis, both in my understanding of some of the visions that Pope Francis had for the Church, and in the way we can continue to carry them forward in terms of a true prophetic vision for the Church of today and tomorrow “.
Cheering between the United States and Peru at the World Championship
«I will probably support Peru, just for emotional reasons. I am also a big fan of Italy … everyone knows that they cheer for the White Sox, but as a Pope cheering for all the teams. Even at home, I grew up cheering for the White Sox, but my mother cheered for the Cubs, so you couldn’t be one of those fans who exclude the other team. We also learned in sport to have an open, dialogical, friendly and non -competitive attitude on things like thatbecause otherwise we would not have had dinner! “
Pope Leone XIV speaks with Elise Ann Allen of Crux on 30 July last (credits: Crux Photo)
The role of Pope
«I still have a long way to do to learn. An important part of this path seems to me that I have already faced it without too much difficulty, namely the pastoral one. Even if I am surprised by the answer, from what you continue to be great, by the involvement of people of all ages … I appreciate everyone, whoever they are, whatever they bring with them, and listen to them. The totally new aspect of this work is being catapulted to the level of world leader. It is very public, people know the telephone conversations or the meetings I have had with the heads of state of several governments, Countries around the world, at a time when the church voice has a significant role to play. I am learning a lot about how the Holy See has played a role in the diplomatic world for many years … these things are all new for me in a practical sense. I followed the topicality for many, many years. I have always tried to keep up on the news, but the role of Pope is certainly new to me. I am learning a lot and I feel very stimulated, but not overwhelmed. In this case I had to dive very quickly in the deepest part of the swimming pool. Being Pope, successor of Peter, called to confirm others in their faith, which is the most important part, is also something that can only happen by the grace of God, there is no other explanation.
The Holy Spirit is the only way to explain how I was elected to this office, to this ministry. For my faith, for what I lived, for my understanding of Jesus Christ and the Gospel, I said yes, I am here. I hope to be able to confirm others in their faith, because this is the fundamental role that Pietro’s successor has ».
The possible role of Vatican mediation in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine
«I would make a distinction between the voice of the Holy See in supporting the peace and the role of mediator, which I think is very different and not as realistic as the first. I think people listened to the different appeals that I launched to make my voice heard, the voice of Christians and people of good will, saying that peace is the only answer. After years of unnecessary killings on both sides – in that particular conflict, but also in other conflicts – I think people should somehow be awakened to say that there is another way to resolve the matter. Thinking about the Vatican as a mediator, even on the few occasions in which we offered to host negotiation meetings between Ukraine and Russia, both in the Vatican and in other properties of the Church, are well aware of the implications that this entails.
The Holy See, since the beginning of the war, has made great efforts to maintain a position that, however difficult it may be, is not lined up neither on one side nor on the other, but truly neutral. Some things I said have been interpreted in one way or another, and that’s okay, but I think the realistic part of all this is not primary right now. I believe that several actors should exercise sufficient pressure so that the parts in the war say: enough, we are looking for another way to solve our differences. We continue to hope. I firmly believe that we can never give up hope. I have great hopes in human nature. There is the negative side, there are bad actors, there are temptations.
From anywhere and in any position, you can find good motivations and less good motivations. Still, continuing to encourage people to look at the highest values, the real values, makes the difference. You can have hope and continue to push and tell people: let’s do it differently ».
The bridges to be built on an ecclesiastical, political, social and cultural level
«First of all, the way to build bridges is mainly through dialogue. One of the things I managed to do in these first two months was at least to start a dialogue, meeting the world leaders of multinational organizations. In theory, the United Nations should be the place where many of these issues are addressed. Unfortunately, it seems to be generally recognized that the United Nations, at least right now, have lost their ability to bring people to multilateral issues.
Many argue that it is necessary to resort to bilateral dialogue to try to resolve the issues, since there are obstacles at different levels that prevent the continuation of multilateral activities.
We must continue to remember to ourselves the potential that humanity has to overcome the violence and hatred that are dividing us more and more. We live in an era when polarization seems to be one of the words of the day, but this does not help anyone. Or if it helps someone, they are very few, while all the others suffer. So, I think it is important to continue lifting these issues ».
Polarization
«One thing is certainly to raise the question of polarization and talk about it. I think it is very important to start a deeper reflection, trying to understand: why is the world so polarized? What is going on? I think there are many elements that have led to this. I do not pretend to have all the answers, but I certainly see reality in some of the results.
The 2020 crisis and the pandemic have certainly had an effect on all this, but I think it started much earlier … perhaps in some places the loss of a higher sense of what human life is would have something to do with this, which has influenced people at many levels. The value of human life, family and the value of society. If we lose the meaning of these values, what matters more? ».
The growing gap between rich and poor
«One of the factors that I consider very significant is the ever wider gap between the income levels of the working class and the money they receive the richest. For example, the CEOs who 60 years ago could earn four to six times more than workers, according to the latest data I have seen, today they earn 600 times more than the average workers’ income. Yesterday the news was released that Elon Musk will become the first trilionary in the world. What does it mean and what does it entail? If this is the only value that still matters, then we are in serious trouble … ».
Synodality
«Synodality is An attitude, an opening, an willingness to understand. Speaking of the Church today, this means that every single member of the Church has a voice and a role to play through prayer, reflection … through a process.
There are many ways in which this can happen, but always through dialogue and mutual respect. Gathering people and understanding that relationship, that interaction, creating opportunities for meeting, is an important dimension of the way we live our life as a Church. Some felt threatened by this. Sometimes the bishops or priests could think that “synodality will take away my authority”. This is not the meaning of synodality, and perhaps this idea of authority is a little blurred, incorrect. I think synodality is a way to describe how we can unite and be a community and seek communion as a church, So that it is a Church whose main objective is not an institutional hierarchy, but rather a sense of “we together”, “our Church”. Each person with their own vocation, priests, lay people, bishops, missionaries, families. Each with a specific vocation that has been given to him has a role to play and something to contribute, and together we try to grow and walk together as a church. It is an attitude that, in my opinion, can teach a lot to today’s world. A little while ago we talked about polarization.
I think this is a sort of antidote. I think it’s a way to face some of the biggest challenges we have in today’s world. If we listen to the Gospel, if we reflect together on it and if we strive to walk together, listening to each other, trying to discover what God is telling us today, we have a lot to earn ».
Democracy
«I sincerely hope that the synodal process started long before the last Synod, at least in Latin America – I talked about my experience there. Some Latin American churches have really contributed to the universal Church – I think there is a great hope if we can continue to build on the experience of the last two years and to find ways to be a church together.
Not to try to transform the Church into a sort of democratic government, because if we look at many countries of the world today, democracy is not necessarily a perfect solution for everything.
But respecting, understanding the life of the Church for what it is and saying: “We must do it together”. I think this offers a great opportunity to the Church and gives it the opportunity to engage with the rest of the world. Since the time of the Second Vatican Council, I think this has been significant, and there is still a lot to do ».
